Practices    (Patipatti) Practice Summary   (Note: These taped interviews were taken largely from a group of monks who came to Boonkanjanaram from a Northeast province, where they planned to teach Vipassana:. This is the reason why there is a larger than normal representation of monks in these interviews. The normal division in this practice at the various meditation centers is, for every ten people: five women, three monks, three laymen.)                          (The first student is a monk who has been practicing about a month). Aachan Naeb(AN): How do you know it is sitting rupa, walking rupa? Student(S): I know only by mind. AN: What do you mean by mind? S: The way I sit, that is sitting rupa. The way I walk is walking rupa. AN: Sitting rupa, walking rupa - does the eye see it? S: The eye sees only color or shape. The eye cannot see sitting rupa, etc. But the mind knows sitting rupa, etc. AN: When you know sitting rupa, are you thinking or do you know by another way? S: I know by rusuthua (Thai=awareness) that it is sitting rupa. AN: Thinking or rusuthua - are they different or the same? S: Thinking means to think sitting rupa over and over in the mind. But rusuthua means to know the way you sit - and that is sitting rupa. AN: Yes.                           (Next day) AN: Since you have come to practice, how do you feel? S: I don't seem to be aware of nama and rupa continuously. AN: It's important to be aware of nama and rupa continuously. The important thing is to keep in mind that you practice in the right way. Don't think about the result. If you have the right cause you will get the right result. Right or wrong practice depends on right understanding of the practice. If you have right understanding you will understand what rusuthua is. If you don't understand the practice you won't understand rusuthua. If you understand the practice you have right yoniso. If you don't understand how to prevent kilesa, you have ayoniso.             In your practice which are you observing more, rupa or nama  ? S: Rupa. Walking rupa. AN: Why? S:  Because walking rupa is easier to see. It's bigger. It's easier to catch than other rupa. AN: You want to walk because it's easier for you? S: Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not. AN: If you decide to walk for another reason (than to cure suffering) it means you like walking rupa, and you are out of vipassana practice. You are told to observe rupa in the four positions. Do you know why? S: To know the four positions and know dukkha forces them to change. AN: When you change the position - how do you yoniso correctly? S: You have to know the old position is dukkha, and dukkha forces the position to change. AN: When walking or sitting - do you know why you walk or sit? S: To cure suffering from the old position. AN: Yes. You are right. Walking is not for pleasure or seeing dhamma or because walking rupa is easy to see. That is wrong. And when you are wrong, you cannot reach the truth. With wrong practice you cannot get the right result. The important thing you have to know concerns changing positions. You have to know why you change posture to cure suffering. The more you know this reason for changing, the more you get from vipassana. Knowing the reason for changing will help you realize suffering. The more you realize suffering, the more you will feel disgust toward suffering - which leads to detachment from rupa  and nama  (5 Khandas). Do you want to see dhamma from walking? S: Yes. AN: What dhamma do you want to see from walking? S: When I walk, I feel that I see walking rupa better than another posture. I know that dukkha forced rupa to walk, but I also feel that I want to walk. AN: Walking with desire cannot prevent kilesa. So kilesa will follow every step. If you think walking will bring benefit to you, you cannot see dhamma. The reason I say that is, in order to see dhamma walking, you have to know that walking rupa is suffering, walking rupa is impermanent, walking rupa is insubstantial and cannot be controlled. Before walking you have ayoniso, so you think walking is good, walking is substantial, so kilesa is in that walking and hides the truth. So yoniso is very important in vipassana.   (Next day) AN: Now, you understand the practice enough. Do you believe the four postures will show you the truth and that truth is dukkha? S: Yes. Because there is dukkha vedana in every posture, and it always arises, and when the pain occurs rupa must change.   (Another day) AN: Do you have any foong? S: Very often. Some days too much foong. Some days not too much. AN: Do you know why you have foong? S: No. AN: Because at that time you are out of the present moment. You don't have rusuthua (awareness). So your rusuthua is away from rupa and nama in the present moment. So foong (which is kilesa) occurs. S: When foong occurs how can I be in the present moment? AN: You know foong is nama. It is not you that has foong. Foong is dhamma. You don't like foong, do you? S: No. AN: You have wrong understanding, because if you know it is of benefit, then when you see foong, you know you are out of the present moment and you can come back to nama or rupa. You want the mind to stay with sitting rupa longer, right? S: Yes. AN: Foong is rupa or nama? S: Foong is nama. AN: When you know foong is nama you should not observe nama foong, because nama is very subtle. It is not good for the new practitioner. When you realize foong, you don't stop and analyze it. Just come back to the present moment of sitting rupa - or if foong gets too strong, change the position. Do you want foong to disappear? S: Yes. Because foong is hard to observe. It's not like observing the four positions. AN: Yes. Nama is subtle. It is very hard for the new practitioner to observe nama, and there is frequent foong, because new students have weak sati and sampajanna. If sati and sampajanna are in the present moment you don't have foong. So you have to try to have more rusuthua (awareness) in rupa and nama that is in the present moment. And you have to know the characters of sati and sampajanna.* So when you are out of the present moment you will realize it and come back to the present moment again. If you have foong very often, and you feel annoyed about it, and this in turn creates even more foong; you crave for foong to disappear and it won't and you don't like. Foong that has dohsa is the paccaya (aiding condition) for another foong. Not knowing that foong is nama creates aversion and aversion prevents us from going back to the present moment.   (Another day. Beginning student. Layman) AN: How do you observe sitting rupa? S: I observe from head to foot, and foot to head. AN: How many days have you done this? S: Six days. AN: Who taught you to do it that way? Do you know if this is Vipassana or not? S: I did the practice at another place and they taught it that way. And the teacher here said you only have ten days here, so do it that way. AN: This is wrong. You are observing sitting rupa wrong. Because the way you sit is sitting rupa. The way you sit in any position is what you are observing. Standing, you know the way you stand, walking you know the way you walk, lying you know the way you lie. The important thing is to have rusuthua to know what rupa you are observing. This changes the wrong view of 'you sit' to sitting rupa. So whatever way you sit, just observe that. Don't walk and don't sit in unusual ways. If you do it that way your mind is out of the Middle Way, because it's trying to do something with desire.   (Another student. Layman). AN: How is your practice? S: When observing sitting rupa, I have seen the image of the Buddha very bright. Even now it is still clear in my mind. AN: You come to practice Vipassana. Do you know what Vipassana is? S: Vipassana is to see rupa and nama as impermanent, suffering, and without self. AN: When you see an image of the Buddha like this, is it vipassana or not? S: No. AN: Do you like to see the image of the Buddha like this? S: Yes. I have piti (rapture). I have never seen anything like this. AN: What you have seen is nimitta. It comes from samadhi. When citta (mind) has left rupa and nama and has no rusuthua in the present moment, samadhi occurs. Then you will see heaven, hell and so forth. When you see nimitta, you don't have rusuthua, or sati-sampajanna in the present moment. You have to change your object when this occurs to reduce samadhi: from sitting to walking, or to nama hearing and then samadhi will be reduced. You have to have sikkhati to notice why you are out of the present moment. If you know the cause (samadhi), you can come back to the present moment easily.   (Another student. Layman) AN: How is your practice? S: This time it is better than the last time, but I have been feeling sick and also have some nivarana (hindrances), which is foong. AN: Do you think nivarana is your enemy? and it keeps the mind from being peaceful? S: Yes. AN: You want your mind to be peaceful. Do you know if this is right or wrong? S: No. AN: Your understanding is wrong. You come to practice Vipassana. Do you want samadhi or do you want panna? S: I want panna. AN: So why do you want a peaceful mind? S: Now I understand. I am wrong. AN: If you know you are wrong, it's all right. This is good for wisdom. Then you can change. If you don't know you are wrong you won't have a chance to understand the practice. Do you know why you are wrong to want samadhi? S: No. AN: Because everything is impermanent. Do you like it or not - that things are impermanent? S: No, I don't like it. AN: The samadhi that you want - is it permanent? S: Impermanent AN: So, you wand samadhi. So you want something that is impermanent? S: Yes. AN: Being satisfied with something that is impermanent, means you are satisfied with nama and rupa that are impermanent. That we call vipallasa (perversity of perception). That makes you satisfied with samadhi. But with Vipassana we want the wisdom that knows nama and rupa in order to change the wrong view that is 'we'. You have to see nama-rupa as impermanent, suffering, and without self. The truth is that everything is only rupa and nama and it has the Three Characteristics - so you have to have yoniso in your mind, in order to avoid desire --- such as wanting samadhi or peacefulness. When something appears to you that thing will bring wisdom to you --- vipassana wisdom. Please practice as though you are watching a play. When you want your mind to be peaceful you are not watching the play. You are trying to direct the play and that is wrong. When you know you are wrong it's good for you, because next time you want a peaceful mind you can change your object for example --- change the position. When we say majjhima-patipada (Middle Way) it is easy to say, but in practice it is hard to do. You know why you are not in majjhima-patipada? Because the mind always wants to like or dislike. An example is your craving for a peaceful mind and your dislike of foong. S: Yes. AN: Wanting a peaceful mind is abhijjha. Your dislike of foong is domanassa. So kilesa will always follow you. How can you be free from kilesa? If your mind is in "majjhima" like or dislike can be destroyed.   (Another day. Another student) AN: How is your practice? Do you have any doubt about the practice? S: When I practice the four postures I tend to find one posture easier to catch rupa. I tend to use that posture - such as walking. Is that correct practice? AN: That's all right, but you have to be careful. If you think walking rupa will be beneficial, tanha can enter. So you have to have good yoniso to see that changing position is to cure suffering - and then craving can't enter. S: When observing the four postures - but not because I suffer in rupa, but just in the mind --- I feel irritable. So I change postures. AN: That's not right. You change because you have kilesa. You have no yoniso to see that change is to cure suffering. You know why your mind is irritable? Because you haven't seen sitting rupa, the mind becomes restless. When the mind becomes restless kilesa comes in. You become heedless and lack attention - and kilesa enters. So you want to change position in order to find a new object. If you change the position with desire, kilesa is in, and hides the truth. You do this with desire because you want a quick result. You have to notice when you change position, whether kilesa is there or not.   (Another student. Another day) AN: How is your practice? S: When I wake up in the morning and observe sitting rupa I feel light. When I sit I feel like a cotton ball. I know this is too much samadhi. So I change positions. But the samadhi still follows me. AN: Try to reduce samadhi by not changing the object. Can you do this? Just do it with more rusuthua (awareness). Can you try that? S: I tried that but with no success. The body still feels like it's floating off. AN: Do you know what the cause is? S: Because I have weak sampajanna. AN: Sati-sampajanna have to be equal. In the new practitioner, sampajanna is weak and there is too much sati. And that keeps sampajanna out. So you have to have more rusuthua, and samadhi can't push the sampajanna out. Sati and sampajanna work together with the same object. If there is more sati, it pushes sampajanna away. So you have to notice this. Try to have more rusuthua and make sati and sampajanna equal.   (Another day. Another student) AN: How is your practice, since I told you to observe hearing. S: It's better. The sound does not bother me like before. AN: Do you know why you hear? S: Because of the sound, and so I hear it. AN: Hearing is rupa or nama? S: Nama. AN: What is nama? When you hear do you notice what is nama? S: Nama hearing. And rusuthua observing nama hearing. AN: As a matter of fact we learned before that there is a sound and that causes hearing. I advised you to observe nama hearing, so you will see that nama hearing occurs from paccaya (aiding condition). The sound and the ear are aiding conditions for hearing. Hearing occurs by itself. Hearing is pure. It's without kilesa, like or dislike. If we see this very often it will be beneficial, because you won't dislike hearing, or the sounds you hear, and you won't think it disturbs your Vipassana practice. Then you can see sabhava, because nama hearing is sabhava, and you can see paccaya too - nobody created sabhava.   (Another day. Another student) AN: How is your practice? Do you understand the practice better? S: It's better, but nama-rupa hasn't occurred yet. AN: What do you mean nama and rupa hasn't occurred yet? S: I haven't really seen nama and rupa. I just know about it from my study, but haven't seen it yet. AN: You haven't had enough experience in the practice yet. You don't know how to catch the present moment. Vipassana is not easy. You have to have perseverance, and learn little by little. As if you walk a tight-rope and you fall off and you have to get up again. Vipassana is more difficult than walking a tight-rope. Don't hurry. Don't be in a hurry to see nama and rupa. Just practice. And keep in mind to practice in a normal way and don't desire to see nama and rupa --- whether you see it or not is not important. When tanha is there you cannot see dhamma, because your mind is wrong. You have to have yoniso in your mind, like you are watching a play. The play has only four parts - sitting, lying, standing and walking. That's all. Even though there are only four parts, it is very hard to see. You have to understand how to observe it.   (Another day. Second monk) AN: How is your practice? S: Late at night I have too much samadhi and become frightened very easily. AN: Too much samadhi and being easily frightened is normal. And after that you are going to be afraid. But not afraid of ghosts. Just afraid. At that time you don't have rusuthua. Only sati. But you don't have awareness. If the mind has sati-sampajanna or rusuthua in nama and rupa, you won't feel frightened. If you are absent-minded, without attention, you will feel frightened when you hear something. If you have rusuthua when hearing occurs, nama hearing follows in your mind and that means you catch the present moment. This means that the person has experience in the practice and has sati-sampajanna. S: It's easy when we listen to the instruction, but when we practice it's very difficult. AN: Sati-sampajanna means that you have to have rusuthua in the present moment. But it's hard to explain. The student has to try and practice. If you know the story of foong you don't have rusuthua. If you have rusuthua you don't know the story. Rusuthua means to be in the present moment with rupa and nama. S: I know sitting, now I'm observing sitting rupa. AN: But if you rusuthua with sati-sampajanna not clearly enough, even if you know by listening (sutta wisdom), you don't know the characteristics of sati-sampajanna. The new-comer when they come to practice most of them know the story (fall into foong), because they don't have enough experience observing the 4 positions; so they don't know which to observe in practice, rupa or nama --- in the various sense spheres (see Fig 2-1). So they practice sometimes right, sometimes wrong. When they have samadhi, rusuthua is out, and they don't know it. So they have to have sikkhati to notice this. If someone lacks noticing (sikkhati), that person lacks knowledge of the practice. Pariyatti [theory] and practice are different. Pariyatti is only in the book. Pariyatti tells you about the characteristics of rupa and nama - but the truth of rupa and nama - you have never seen before. When you don't understand the sabhava of rupa and nama it's hard to practice right.   (Another day, a monk who teaches Vipassana) AN: How is your practice after a week? S: This time is different from last time. Last time I never felt tired. This time I felt tired. I don't feel elated like the last time. And I don't know why. AN: This is because the other time you practiced, samadhi was the aiding condition for kilesa to occur, and this made you feel elated and feel piti (rapture). But this time your samadhi is reduced, the mind is dry, and you don't feel elation. Practicing vipassana, if kilesa is reduced, makes the mind feel less joyful. That makes you lose your appetite - not want to see anything. As to the tiredness, this is caused by too much atapi [earnestness]. And that atapi is with craving - the craving that wants to see dhamma. The important thing is to know what will give you a good result. 1) You must know what you should be observing, rupa or nama. And how you observe them. 2) You have to be aware of which posture you observe more, and why. 3) When you change the position, you must know if you have yoniso or not, and whether it is correct yoniso. This is very important, because it destroys the things that hide the truth of suffering. When changing positions you have to have good yoniso. When you know the old position suffers and you know that it is not you that suffers, then this awareness prevents aversion for the old position and liking for the new position. So it will destroy abhijjha (like) and domanassa (dislike). 4) When you are thinking of foong, do you observe the "story", or that foong is nama? This is very important. Who is the owner of nama foong? S: Nobody. AN: That's right. Nama foong is sabhava. Not man, not woman, not self. S: Since I came to practice, until this time, I haven't seen rupa or nama yet. AN: You haven't seen nama or rupa and you feel tired because you have desire. That desire is tanha, which makes you want to see rising and falling of nama and rupa, and so your practice is not progressing. And atapi is too strong. Atapi with tanha makes you tired. You have been practicing less than a month and you want to see this and that, and when you cannot, you feel dejected. This is wrong. Because when you have desire it is not majjhima-patipada(middle way) and panna(wisdom) cannot occur. And how do you know nama and rupa hasn't appeared yet? This is nama and rupa. Right now you are observing nama and rupa, but it is cinta panna. Practicing vipassana, if you want to feel enjoyment, this is not vipassana. In correct vipassana there is no enjoyment. If you see more dukkha the mind becomes drier (more wisdom) and kilesa is reduced. Can I ask you, are you observing nama-rupa continuously or not? S: Yes. But I cannot be in the present moment. AN: That nama-rupa you are observing, are you observing it by thinking or by rusuthua? S: By thinking more than rusuthua. AN: Do you still think you are sitting and walking order to see rupa --- rather than to cure suffering? When you walk do you yoniso on why you are walking? S: Yes. But I often have absent mind. AN: That's all right. Absent mind is all right. When you get more experience in practice absent mind will be reduced. The important thing is to not to want to see rupa and nama or see the rising and falling of rupa and nama. You have to stop feeling like that. Don't even feel you are practicing vipassana. Because that feeling is desire to see sabhava and that is kilesa. You have to feel that you must sit or lie down to cure suffering. That is the paccaya for wisdom.   (Another day. Another monk) AN: How is your practice? S: It's O. K. I'm practicing like you advised me. It feels normal and comfortable. AN: You say "comfortable". Who is comfortable? S: When I change the position, I feel comfortable and the pain disappears. AN: The body is comfortable or the mind comfortable? S: The body is comfortable and the mind too. AN: When you say 'comfortable', where do you feel comfortable? Do you want to change the position or do you have to change the position? S: I have to change. AN: Have to change means you are forced to change. How can you say you are comfortable? S: A little comfortable after changing the position. AN: A little comfortable. Even a little comfortable is kilesa. That is tanha. You have to practice until you realize there is no comfortable. Then sukha vipallasa [thinking the body is pleasurable] can be reduced. You are practicing in order to see dukkha(suffering) or sukha(satisfy). This is wrong. You must practice in order to see dukkha. The Lord Buddha said there is only dukkha in the world. S: One time when observing I saw all dukkha in nama and rupa - and I felt afraid to die. AN: You have seen the body as dukkha. Why are you still afraid to die? You are afraid to die because you still see the body as desirable. Your tanha is still strong because you are afraid to lose the Five Khandas. Next time you practice do you think you will see dukkha or not? S: I don't know. AN: You have to notice what rupa and what nama you are observing, and what position you are in at the time you see dukkha. The way you have seen dukkha is correct practice. And that is the cause that will bring Vipassana wisdom about. When you change the position you have to know what reason you change for, and know that dukkha forces you to change the position. Don't feel that you want to change. You have to feel that you have to change. If you are going to be a teacher you have to know the cause and the result. For example, when you are observing, you must always have rusuthua (awareness) of nama and rupa. Why? Because everything is only nama and rupa - there is nothing else. This will change the wrong view that there is a self. Then nama-rupa-pariccheda-yana will follow. This is the first wisdom to occur, which is called ditthi-visuddhi (purity of view). You have to know the difference between knowing nama-rupa by pariyatti (theory) and nama-rupa by practicing. And you have to know what nama and what rupa you are observing such as sitting rupa and nama hearing. Because if you just observe rupa and nama that cannot destroy Ghanasanna (perception of compactness) that hides anatta. You have to know what rupa and what nama, and you have to know them in the present moment. You have to notice why you are doing something and what you do it for. The mind that is enjoyable, that is fine for the one who wants kilesa, but it is no good for one who wants to be free from kilesa. You study theory, but you just know the names. Which rupa, which nama, which kilesa. But when you come to practice you have seen them but you don't know them yet. Lord Buddha said, "Sabhava dhamma is there, but it is very hard to see."   (Another day. First monk) AN: How is your practice? S: My practice is better. The mind is quite clear, Foong (day dreaming) is small. I come back to the present moment quickly, and I have less samadhi. AN: You say the mind is quite clear. What do you mean by that? S: I don't feel tired like I did before. AN: You know rupa-nama by pariyatti (theory) and by practice. Do you know difference? And when do you know it? Knowing by pariyatti means you know by studying beforehand - and which rupa and which nama. But knowing by practicing you have to recognize the wrong view that makes you think they are self. When does this occur (wrong view)? It occurs when you are away from nama-rupa in the present moment. When you have rusuthua with sati-sampajanna that is in the present moment, the wrong view that thinks nama-rupa are self cannot occur. But it hasn't gone away yet. Because you are only observing rupa and nama when you are in the present moment. You don't know rupa and nama clearly. Kilesa is only prevented at the time you are in the present moment. Do you know what benefit there is to know rupa and nama by pariyatti? The benefit is that you can observe rupa and nama in the present moment in the right way. AN: Do you know why you have to change the position? S: Because dukkha forces the change. AN: You have to know which rupa is suffering too. For example, sitting rupa suffers, standing rupa suffers, etc. If you are not in the present moment you will have foong about the future and past. Dukkha everybody can realize - but they don't know what suffers. Do you know why? Because they don't have rupa and nama in the present moment at that time. You said that your mind is quite clear. How about dukkha? Do you have dukkha? No pain in sitting? Or walking? You don't get tired? Or lying down? You don't get pain? Which rupa do you think is dukkha? You say that your practice is better; that there is less foong and your mind is clear. So that means you are sukha S: When foong occurs, I know it is nama-foong, and foong disappears. So the mind is clear, and I come back and observe the four postures. AN: But if you are observing dukkha-vedana and it disappears and you feel sukha(satisfy), which is wrong. You have to see dukkha(suffering). The function of the Four Noble Truths is observing dukkha. The more you see dukkha the more tanha is eradicated. Don't just observe - you have to have yoniso; you have to always have nama and rupa - in every moment. You feel dukkha until you have no sukha. The more you see dukkha, the less sukha you will have. Dukkha is going to burn tanha away. So when tanha is extinguished you are going to burn nirodha. When you reach nirodha the Eight-Fold Path is perfect. When you take your medication, do you yoniso or not? As to why you have to take the pills? You have to know you take the pill to cure suffering. If you have no yoniso, your practice is not on the right track of Vipassana. Or when you change the position, every time you know it is to cure suffering - until you feel it is really dukkha. So the wisdom that has seen dukkha is going to drive tanha and ditthi (wrong view) away. So yoniso is very important for practicing Vipassana. And then you won't find any sukha in any rupa - because when you change the posture it is to cure suffering.   (Another day. Second monk) AN: How is your practice? S: Sati-Sampajanna is better. AN: You said your sati-sampajanna is better. What is sati-sampajanna? And what nama or rupa are you observing? S: Sometimes I realize that because there is rupa, there is sitting, standing, walking, lying rupa, and I have seen that that rupa I am observing looks like a doll - and I have become afraid and there is no pleasure. AN: Afraid means that rupa is insubstantial, is anatta. That means you are practicing better. Tanha is very important to prevent. Tanha can be in every object, is very subtle, quick and is clever. If you don't know about it, it's going to get in. The important thing is that you don't want to see this or that - your duty is just to observe. If rupa and nama hasn't occurred yet, but we want it to occur, or you try to make it occur - for example when you sit you raise your hand slowly in order to see rupa rising and falling (the different rupas) - this is done with tanha. When you are observing, be careful about looking for certain things. This is desire. Dukkha has to occur first, and when you are observing dukkha - that is the present moment. All human beings don't want dukkha, but dukkha still occurs - you cannot control it. Tanha wants dukkha vedana to disappear. If you don't have yoniso, panna cannot occur. If you are observing with the desire for dukkha-vedana to disappear like you did before, you will be out of the present moment. To be in the present moment you have to have right yoniso. When you feel that you have to change because dukkha forces, you move and tanha cannot enter.   (Another day. 1st monk) AN: How do you feel about your practice? S: The practice before was pariyatti (theory). AN: How do you know whether it is or is not pariyatti? S: Now I know by bhavana panna, * but it's still not quite clear. AN: How do you recognize sutta panna, cinta panna and bhavana panna? S: Last night when lying down, I saw lying rupa and not me lying. A little bit but not clear. Then it disappeared. So I know my practice before was pariyatti. AN: Bhavana panna is the sabhava that lying rupa is showing, but we don't always see it. Then we do, and then it disappears - and even if we have seen it just a little bit, then we know it is different. Then cinta panna follows and the present moment is out. But it's not wrong. It's just that bhavana panna cannot occur. Right now, do you feel you are practicing or not? If you feel you are practicing, that feeling is wrong. That feeling hides panna. You have to sit first and after that you observe sitting rupa. Then dukkha occurs and you have to change to cure suffering. Not sit to see sitting rupa. That means you think you are practicing? S: How can we prevent thinking that we are practicing? AN: You have to have yoniso. You have to change because suffering forces you to change. You have to realize that you have to sit, lie down and walk, even if you don't want to. And you have to yoniso very often. That can prevent tanha from entering. You have to try continually to get rid of tanha until you reach visuddhi --- so you can get the right result. How is your indriya samvarasila (sense restraint)? Is it better? S: Yes. I always use sense restraint. AN: If you don't have indriya samvarasila it's very harmful. It's like taking medication without following the directions. If you do that, sickness won't get better. If you are going to just practice and not have indriya samvarasila it's no good. So you have to have that quality to practice well. For example, ' nama hearing' is sense restraint and ' nama seeing' - because ' you ' are not hearing and 'you' are not seeing.   (Another day. Second monk) AN: You say your practice is better. What do you mean? S: It means that I practice observing rupa and nama in the present moment very often, but sometimes it's cinta panna. AN: How do you know whether it's cinta or bhavana panna? Cinta panna means you are practicing, but in the way you were told by the teacher. Bhavana panna you know by yourself. That is the result that occurs when you observe nama and rupa in the present moment. That nama and rupa is teaching you in the right way. So you know the result will be right. S: For the last two or three days I have felt tired. AN: Is tiredness dhamma or not? S: Yes. AN: How do you think it's dhamma? Tiredness is the real dhamma, because dukkha is the object of dhamma. You come to practice in order to see dukkha. The more you see dukkha, the more you will feel disgust in dukkha. When you see a little dukkha you don't realize it. For example, dukkha vedana in the 4 positions. When you get a lot of dukkha, you don't want to look at it. For example, you get sick. Ignoring dukkha makes you comfortable, but you can't end suffering that way. As a matter of fact everybody has dukkha, but they do not realize Ariya Sacca. Why? Because they want to remedy that dukkha, or make it disappear. There are so many dukkhas, but they think that's no good, because dukkha makes them uncomfortable - makes them weak, makes them tired. If they don't observe dukkha how are they going to reach Ariya-sacca, because dukkha is Ariya-sacca. When dukkha occurs, there will be two kinds of dukkha: dukkha-vedana or sankhara dukkha. But sankhara dukkha is hard to see, hard to realize. This means even changing the position is suffering too. Dukkha lakkhana (Three Characteristics) and dukkha-ariya-sacca are even harder. Dukkha-vedana (ordinary pain in the position) is easy to see, and one can be enlightened that way. The important thing is, if it's not necessary, don't change the position, because then you will be sitting in order to practice, to see walking rupa, for example, rather than changing position simply because suffering must be cured. (1st monk again) S: The last two or three days I cannot stay in the present moment. AN: Because you have too much samadhi, you are out of the present moment. You have to have more rusuthua. Try to have more rusuthua. Another thing, you are observing dukkha too little. So dukkha is passing you by. You have to realize the truth of sabhava. Dukkha is the truth. Rupa and nama are the truth. Why is it the truth? Because it's not in your control. And the truth we cannot change. For example, rupa cannot change to nama and nama cannot change to rupa. And so the four positions are the truth. The four positions, that is rupa. Foong is the truth too. When you change the position how do you yoniso? S: Because dukkha forces the change. AN: How many times do you change the position in one day? S: So many. AN: So, you mean that dukkha occurs so many times that you can't remember. How can you then think you are comfortable? You don't see dukkha, because you have too little observation of dukkha. Dukkha has to occur first, then you change the position. So you should follow this. When you change the position you have to notice if kilesa is there or not. Because kilesa makes you have the wrong yoniso. You have to know sitting rupa suffers not you, and this yoniso will prevent kilesa (aversion) from getting in. And you must know you have to change to the new position and that prevents desire from getting in. When you don't have dukkha, you want to see dukkha. You are waiting for dukkha to arise. You should not do this. This is desire. Kilesa is very subtle. If you don't know how subtle